Friday, October 7, 2011

What is really unreal

found via google image search
There was a really interesting discussion on Milkboys recently.  (here)  It would appear that Japan is increasing the concepts of abuse to include what was refered to as Manga in the article. 
  Like most reasonably computer literate individuals, I am aware of the anime drawings.  They do have the tendency to go a wide degree of situations and characterizations.  I'm not really into it myself, guess I just missed the "comic book bug" that many have.  So, I guess there is a degree of "whatever" to my response to something like this, until I begin to think deeper on the subject.
  The problem that many people have with the anime stuff is that there is an element, a style of content for some, that depicts sex with seemingly underage people.  It is that type of anime that Japan is referring to as "child abuse".  As you can imagine, there are some who agree, there are some who disagree.
  In the end, my concern really comes by the concepts used to fight the issue.  Referring to the drawings and cgi as "child abuse" and therefore needing to be addressed in the same ways as pornography and assault seems to stretch the bounds of reality a bit.  I'd rather stay out of the concept of abuse for the moment and focus on fiction.
  Now, a cartoon, by definition, is fiction.  It may be based upon fact, I guess, but it does not capture a real likeness nor is it an image of a real person.  So, I think it fair to say it is fiction.  Unreal.  A non person.  Fake.  Imagination.  Fantasy.  Thought.  Do I go on?  And yet, this very definition is ignored and the image declared abuse, imparting a reality that doesn't seem warranted. 
  Does this become a thought crime, handled by the thought police?
  What is the difference between a doodle and a crime?
  Is Michaelangelo's David now to be considered pornography?
  What about written stories?  Are they open to this?

The classification of such images as abuse will have little real effect on me.  It is the end of this that scares me.  If we decry one fiction to be abusive, what's next. 

What are your thoughts.


Sammy B said...

Hello Randy
I apologise in advance, because this may, partly due to other things going on just now, become a rant.
I saw the post you refer to, and I read quite a few of the comments, too. Many of them had me gritting my teeth, and mouthing oaths. Why? Because I can't, in any way at all, see how manga/anime/shotacon, whatever you want to call it, can be equated to 'assault' of any kind. If shotacon is child abuse, then any book/film/TV programme where a character is dies by deliberate violence is murder. And there's far more, vastly more, violence depicted in 'entertainment' than anything sexual, still less 'child abuse'. As you suggest, thin ends of wedges start cropping up as soon as anything purely fictional is targeted. Does reading Lolita make a person a rapist of young girls? Does watching The Silence of the Lambs make a person a serial killer? I wouldn't even call it a double standard, because it doesn't seem to me that any sort of standard is being employed at all. Apart, of course, from the usual mindless parroting of 'paedo, paedo, kill the paedo'. It's so far from reality, it's not even wrong.

Love & best wishes
Sammy B

randy said...

Hi Sammy;
And, you didn't rant. I could hear your frustration, though; just as I heard the frustration of the commenters on Milkboys. It seemed that for most it made little sense to equate the one with the other.
Interestingly, I felt the topic needed more opportunity for comments and that's why I reposted the topic. So, here's my permission to you: rant away.

Anonymous said...

Hello Randy. I am sorry to say I have not had time to read the post you refer to. But I do have strong feelings on this silly , no out right stupid law.

There is no way to equate child abuse with fiction drawings and writings, no matter how well done or stimulating they maybe for some people. It is another example of people so afraid of the human body and especially SEX that even cartoons scare them silly.

I have some funny cartoons...they were cartoon figures that were nude or having sex. Exaggerated body parts. But those funny things which harmed no one, caused no hurt or harm, they are now illegal. So I will have delete them. Does that make sense to anyone.

Sadly I am not sure what our country has come to. What are we when thoughts, and now cartoons and fiction writing are crimes. Is it this way around the whole world. Is the world becoming so restrictive that a persons thoughts are now crimes?

I think our species need help. Hugs, Scottie

randy said...

Hi Scottie;
Well, we are in a very strange world. Anytime a judge can be serious and say that someone abused a child that doesn't exist, it's time to look for the end of the world. Of course, these are the same people who say that a 15 yr old who sends nudie pics of himself to his girlfriend has made himself both victim and abuser in one stroke, thereby a sex offender.
No need for asylums now, the whole dang world is nuts.

Anonymous said...

Hi Randy and all,
I well remember the '60s, when there was pornography banned in Germany yet. Once you have crossed the border to a more liberal country, everywhere there were sex shops, where you could buy. Once porn was freely available in Germany, also this sex tourism disappeared. Since then, when everywhere is talking about child abuse and pedophilia, the trend is also re-directed back here. Some even call for American conditions.

randy said...

Hi Nikki;
In America we have what are called "dry counties" A dry county, often found in the southern states, is where you can't buy alcohol - beer, wine, wiskey. So, you drive to the next county, and just over the line is someone making a fortune.
So I can understand what you are saying. The second part threw me - the line that starts "Since then..." Please expand on that.

Anonymous said...

Hi Randy,
I'll try to explain:
In the 70s, when we had a social-liberal government, even the sexual criminal law was reformed. Homosexuality has been legal. Sale and possession of pornography was not punished. Introduction of sex education in schools. There were many very good educational books that are now banned. In the long period of Conservative government today began a rethink.
As has been increasingly reported in the 90's about child abuse in families, arose a real hysteria. Whole families (parents, older siblings, grandparents, aunts and uncles) were taken to court just because a few teachers and educators misinterpreted the behavior of children and their imagination was too big. Nevertheless, it has now been publicly discussed on pedophilia and the existing laws were restriktiert more. There was even required that sex offenders should be publicly named, as in America.

randy said...

Hi Nikki;
Thank you for detailing things a bit more. It is interesting to see how people have a tendency to swing with the times, like a pendulum; so in a rush to change their direction they go so very far the other way

Scottie said...

but with the each swing, do we become a step more progressive ( open ), or a step more restrictive. a step more liberal, or more conservative? overall, which direction are we slowly advancing toward?
Many Hugs

randy said...

Hi Scottie;
I realized that I had no answer to your question without being sarcastic or depressing....which worries me.